Transcript
Speaker1: Hello and welcome to today's webinar on delivering successful change with Oracle ERP. My name is Diana Giardina. I'm the Oracle partner manager at Hitachi Vantara, and I'm happy to be your host today. I'm pleased to introduce our speakers. We have Michael Verity our capability lead for EMEA, Hitachi, Vantara. Michael has a deep understanding of the steps required to enable successful implementation and has strong stakeholder engagement skills across all levels and has experience of leading a change management practice. We also have Tony Cook, founder and director of Futurelearn who trains partners at Hitachi and Oracle. Tony is really passionate about the end user experience and related process knowledge when adopting Oracle's cloud and on premise technology by providing the very best training solutions coupled with innovative in-application support programs. I'd also like to welcome Owen Dowden, who's head of Digital Enterprise Sales Amea at Hitachi Vantara. Owen has been with Hitachi for over eight years and is responsible for Hitachi's digital enterprise business in EMEA. Owen's team helps companies to modernize finance, supply chain and HR processes through the deployment of modern ERP solutions. Prior to joining Hitachi, Aaron spent seven years with Celarent Consulting, a specialist in performance improvement through behavioral change. So during this webinar we will walk you through building strong foundations, through effective visioning and leadership engagement, keeping stakeholders engaged with change throughout the transformation and training the right people with the right skills in the right way. So I'd like to start by welcoming Owen Dowden. Over to you, Owen. Speaker2: Thanks, Diana, And welcome, everyone, and thanks for joining us today on the webinar and the topic of discussion today. Change Your behavioral change is something I'm particularly passionate about. As Deanna mentioned, I spent seven years at a performance improvement consultancy that was really specialized in how you change people's behavior. And why was behavioral change important? Well, they realized that the missing link often between business results and the company strategy was actually the ability to get people to change their behavior. You can have a fantastic strategy. You can define a great process, you can introduce a new system. But actually the the results and the outcomes you get are really driven by how people act, how they behave, and how you translate that strategy into execution through behavioral change core of of what they did. And actually it's a it's a key challenge still, I think for many large organizations today. Certainly the larger you get, the more complex it gets. And the reality is that change and people and people change is complex, it's dynamic, it's very difficult. And in today's ever changing business world, businesses need to continually change and adapt. And if we bring this into the context of projects or ERP projects, there's no doubt that when we start talking to to customers and the senior stakeholders, there's a lot of nodding heads in terms of the recognition of the importance of change. However, that doesn't often manifest into the same level of focus, attention and investment when it comes to to execution. And you just have to think about how typically an IT project budget is allocated to towards different facets of it versus the change management aspect. And I've spoken to lots of customers who, with the benefit of hindsight, have regretted not giving more attention or more investment into the change management side of their programs. And the reality is that the cost of not getting it right is far greater than the the cost of doing it properly. If you invest up front during a program and when you don't bring people on the journey with you, at best it can erode the the expected outcomes or erode the return on investment from the program And its worst case, it can actually completely derail the overall project and result in project failure. So it's really something that everyone needs to be thinking about. Unlike technology, which I think is pretty, pretty straightforward, generally it does what you want it to do or what you tell it to do. People bring an element of unpredictability, uncertainty to a program, and therefore that needs to be managed with a clear change management strategy and a plan to understand and track and monitor the behaviors and the adoption and the buying throughout the program. And it then really needs to be followed through with with robust and disciplined execution, which is often the the hard bit, the hard piece as you move through the program. So bringing people on the journey with you is absolutely the missing link between really optimizing or maximizing the return on investment from your from your change program, your ERP program. And it's also important to recognize that change starts well before the program or the project actually starts by getting your business aligned, getting key stakeholders aligned to what's coming, why you're doing this, what's needed. And it also carries on way beyond the go live of the end of the project because people need to continually embrace, certainly with cloud ERP, continually embrace new features, new functionality. You have people you join us to think about in the business that need to adopt the systems. So in an evolving and dynamic cloud ERP environment, the changes continue and you need to think and plan for that as you're thinking about how you're going to manage solutions post go live. So, so this webinar is really all about helping you think through some of the strategies, the tools, the techniques that can help you manage the people and behavioral change part of your program. And I'm delighted that we've got the the experience of Michael and Tony here today to to share that with you, because they bring a number of years experience of doing this with different clients. So on that point, I will hand back to Diana. Speaker3: Brilliant. Speaker1: Thank you very much, Erin. So, Michael, whilst we're here to look at Oracle Cloud ERP, why is it do you think that change initiatives sometimes fail? Speaker4: Oh, thanks, Tatiana. Guess there's no simple answer to that question. Ultimately, there are many reasons why change initiatives can fail. Now that can be through combination of many things. People may not be willing to change because they don't believe the change is of any strategic importance to the organization or they don't see any real personal benefits that will come to them as a result of that change. Well, there may be a poor track record in their organization of trying to implement change. They've seen it done before. It's failed. Why do they believe it's going to happen at that time? In addition to that, people may not feel able to change. They haven't been taught the new skills they need to operate the new solution, and they don't have the access to resources they feel they need. Whether that's through some of the material that Tony can talk about with the quick reference guides and all those sort of good things and that are made available that can be available to people. And fundamentally as well, if people don't know what's happening, then how do they know they've got to change? If they haven't heard about the change or they don't know about the impact the change will have on them? Again, that can lead to to failure in any combination of those factors can have significant impact on on any change initiatives. Now, at a simple level, guess what we're talking about here is what's in it for me. We need to be able to clearly articulate that key message for any change program. If you're unable to do that, then you're going to be facing an uphill battle in getting the organization and the people to change. Well, within Hitachi we have a kind of a top down and bottom up, bottom up approach to organizational change management, where we place as much effort on the end users as well as on middle management, leadership and executives, which is fine. But one thing we do do is that is place a very heavy emphasis on leadership involvement and we supply leaders with relevant and timely information during the entire project life cycle so they can track how the program is going. And we do what we can to help predict employee reactions so we can proactively arm leaders with successful, successful mitigation strategies. And we try and manage and track individual transitions so we can push those stakeholder groups along the change curve. I think we're all familiar with the change curve and what that can look like. So we need to try and help people through that process, highlighting any big changes and entering processes prior to changing and continuing with the communications and measurement after implementation. I think, as Owen said, you know, technology simple that feels like it when you're doing it. But with the program, getting getting the tech in is easy. Yeah, maintaining it and building on it. That's that's the hard part. Speaker1: So when you start on a change program, what's the first thing you look to do? Speaker4: Well, for me, I think one of the most important steps right at the beginning is to agree a vision with the leaders. Okay? And for that vision to really stand up, people need to be convinced by a compelling vision rather than be compelled in a coercive way. If you try and twist someone's arm, they're not going to do it. Okay. And and as well as that, when people hear that vision, they need to be overwhelmed by the logic of it. It must seem blindingly obvious. Of course we want to do that. Of course it makes sense. We want to do that. And and the key there is that the vision statement must appeal to to leaders, obviously, but followers and customers writing a vision statement by leaders for leaders just won't stand up. It won't work. Now, the development of that vision statement can be a lengthy process or a relatively short process, but for me, it's about getting the leaders in the organization to to really open up about, okay, what is it, what is their desired end state from this and why are they doing this project? Why are they making this significant change, why they're spending all this money? And what does that does that road to change look like? And also one of two things will happen. Now, I'd be interested on Owen's insight on this as well, because, one, when setting a vision, one of the key questions relates to what are the benefits likely to be. So guess question for you here is from your experience, what benefits do clients look for when implementing Oracle Cloud ERP? Speaker2: Thanks, Mike. Michael Yeah, there are a variety of different benefits I think that customers can achieve or achieve with Oracle Cloud ERP and to some degree it's contextual to their business and what's the priority for them. But there are certainly some consistent themes, I would say, and there's probably four areas I'd mentioned. One one that I think is increasingly important is getting a much tighter grip on financial controls and the management of risk. That's something which is becoming increasingly important for for directors in the company, and particularly with potentially new tighter regulations coming downstream for certain organizations around the sort of UK version of of the US Sox regulation that makes it increasingly important. So we've seen significant benefits in that area really by helping get better control in your data through proactive AI driven monitoring of controls, changes in your systems that can sort of flag alerts where there may be a risk or there may be something which is which is non-compliant. And and what that really does is give the senior leaders of a business much more peace of mind. And it can also significantly streamline sort of your regulatory reporting and sort of audit processes and things like that. So that's a that's one key benefit. The other is just automation in general. So the drive for more process efficiency with cloud ERP that you can you can achieve significant improvements in terms of the level of automation in the finance or supply chain functions as well. And you know, we've seen some customers getting up to 50% improvements in certain areas of their business. And what what this really means is you're freeing up capacity of your people and those people can then focus on higher value added activities. So one of the finance, for example, there's often a desire to get your, your talent spending more time on business, partnering on, on forward looking rather than just running around trying to get relevant data together or driving quite cumbersome manual processes. So that's another big area. And just more confidence in the data I would say is something else. You know, people are often looking for better, better information and buy better information. We mean information that people trust that they can have confidence in so they don't spend time arguing about the data. They spend time trying to understand what it means and what they should do next to to support better decisions. So timely, accurate data and insight is another area. And I'd say the final one is really more around the IT side, the underpinning aspect of what these solutions can drive, and that would be improvements in in things like it, the total cost of ownership of your your IT or your finance supply chain systems and a reduction in the complexity as well of your IT estate. And certainly with SaaS now and the the sort of all encompassing platform that it offers, it really does help drive down the complexity from from your more legacy historic based implementations that were on premise. Speaker4: So thanks for that. There's lots of there for organizations to think of. So once you've gone through this process with your leaders to to answer those questions, you should be able to tease out the key themes which you can then shape into hopefully a fairly succinct vision statement which everyone can get behind, which you can then communicate to colleagues and stakeholders. Think it's Cotter, who said that a great change vision is something that is easy for people to understand. It can be written usually in half a page, not pages, just half a page and be communicated in 60s. It should be intellectually solid but have emotional appeal and it's something that can be understood by the broad range of people that are ultimately going to have to change. Okay. So that's where the challenge comes in, getting all that information and summarizing it into a fairly short note. But that's what you're aiming for, which is great. But all those words can mean nothing unless you have the real full throated support of the leaders in the organization. And without that, you are setting yourself up to fail. So to try and mitigate that risk, what we what we do here in Hitachi when working with clients is take leaders through some leading people through change training to provide them with some of the tools that they will need to support their people through the changes that will inevitably be coming. Now, during this training, we introduced leaders to some models and some thinking about change and how to overcome change related challenges. Daryl Conner, in his book Managing at the Speed of Change, draws the analogy that people like a sponge can only take on so much before becoming overloaded or saturated, which can then have significant negative impacts. You can be faced with resistance from people who simply have no more capacity to change their full, which can then mean they become distracted. They have less energy, less engagement, and they'll actually struggle to do their day to day job. You've just given them far too much to deal with. So that's something that organizations need to be aware of. Similarly, in his book Stewardship, Peter Block refers to common responses that people or common response mode that people can adopt when faced with change. He highlights that the mode of a victim, the cynic and the bystander. There's also a fourth mode called the Change Navigator, which has been suggested by a leadership development company called Achieve Global, which I really like as well. So we're looking at maybe four different modes there of how people can react to change and what these modes kind of describe the different ways people can react to change. And the response of those people you lead is likely they're going to choose one of those. Now, all of these responses are reasonable, but dealing with people in human beings who have a natural reaction to change, some embrace it, some run away from it. And we shouldn't be surprised when people behave in a different way. But in our leadership training, when we talk about these four different modes, we talk about how leaders can spot people who are maybe exhibiting the behavior of a cynic, victim or bystander or navigator. What could be causing that? What thoughts and attitudes could be behind that? And we also give them some tools as to what they can do to help move people along into a more positive place. And if you're able to take some cynics and change them to navigators, they can become incredibly powerful advocates for what it is you're trying to achieve. Speaker1: Okay. From the vision statement, you've been able to identify what we are doing, why we're doing it, what the benefits are, when it's going to happen. So what's next? Speaker4: Okay, so we've done the vision statement, which is great. We've got something sparkling shiny, which the organization can get behind, but the next step is to actually get out there and start talking to people and get them on board. Stakeholders now think we all know what we mean by stakeholder, right? But let's not. That familiarity breeds contempt to what is a fundamental part of any change initiative. And guess most, if not all of us here have have had the joy of mapping people to a two by 2 or 3 by three, or even a 4x4 matrix of where our different stakeholders sit in terms of their interest and and influence. There's no right or wrong approach here. Guess it's just it's flexible and it's scalable depending on the size of the change that you're managing. But the most important point for me to take away here, as well as identifying those key stakeholder needs, you will need people within the wider program to take ownership of that relationship. Now, this could be people who are key decision makers or it could be process or policy makers, business leaders, subject matter experts, data owners, or the training and development team. It is the responsibility of the change manager in this process to make sure that the people who you are identified as being a stakeholder owner own that relationship and regularly check in with those stakeholders to see how they're getting on. How are they feeling? How are they thinking about the what are their fears, hopes, concerns which we can then help to mitigate, to help take them along that journey. Okay. And now only by doing that, active engagement will be able to track how stakeholders are feeling. Okay, You can't expect a change manager to do it all. It's just not feasible. They don't know those stakeholders. The business do. Okay, so you use that group of stakeholders in the program to do that. And to enable effective communications and engagement with those stakeholders, you have to know what the impacts will be from the implementation of Oracle Cloud, and that's where the change impact analysis comes in. Or the CIA. The main objective of the change impacts analysis is to identify differences large or small from the move to cloud and to highlight any risks to the success of the change so they can be proactively managed. Now, this can be this is done through a process of workshops and follow up conversations with stakeholders. We undertake that through the impact analysis and we identify any potential changes to ways of working. There's a number of things that we can highlight here. We can define the extent of the change proposed in terms of people process technology and focus on the possible effects of those changes on people, analyze and prioritize the possible effects. Some will be more important, some will have a greater magnitude than others. Okay, what are the big hitting items you really need to worry about? And in addition to that, any organizational changes which may be required from the implementation of a new solution and new ways of working some of the roles that people used to carry out won't be the same anymore. Some of the team structures may have to differ. Okay, so what does that look like now to carry out this analysis work? The way we work is we work collaboratively, collaboratively with both the business subject matter experts and our own Oracle consultants to help define that new process. And therefore, we can pick up on any possible changes to ways of working as that develops. And that is key because that then links to the training needs analysis. Speaker3: Excellent. Speaker1: So with that in mind, Michael, this is more of a question for Tony. From your experience of providing training to support for Oracle Cloud, what are the key ingredients to successful training and what does good look like? Speaker2: Yeah. Thanks. Speaker5: Louisiana. I mean, following on from from what Michael was saying, you know, the change impact assessment, I think being being involved in that front end process, being part of the change team from a training team's perspective and in ingraining yourself into that element of the program is really vital in terms of our understanding of the organizational change that's coming. Um, you know, obviously out of the change impact assessment, we'll look at what that training strategy looks like. So first step there is to make sure that we agree what that training strategy is with the business following that, you know, really go into the weeds and look at the training needs analysis. And, you know, what we're looking to cover in that is, you know, who are we training? When's that happening? How are we going to deliver that? And, you know, why are certain groups involved in this in these training programs, you know, as well as that, we want to understand things like, you know, personalizations to the company, any specific configuration that's nonstandard integrations to third party systems that form part of an end to end process, We need to capture all of that information. You know, alongside that understanding the processes, understanding the company policies that are changing, you know, and obviously off system aspects that impact the roles of the individuals. And, you know, really the important thing here is to understand, you know, what those roles are. So we tend to look at, you know, the the organization positions, the roles, the impacts of those and how we're going to, you know, really put the users minds at rest in terms of, you know, contextualizing the new solution, the new processes and how that impacts their roles. And and then obviously delivering that and supporting that with an understanding of how the system's going to give them their support on a day to day basis and delivering that effectively. Um, you know, obviously one of the key things here is to make sure that within the project plan there's enough time for all of these activities. You know, we need time to develop the materials, develop the learning materials. Some of these may be, you know, more instructor based learning, some may be more hands on through walkthroughs that we've created for people to to to manage. Others may be quick reference guides or job aids, but these all take time. And and really it's to make sure there's enough time for these activities to take place because first impressions last. User experience is important. And obviously, you know, if we if we get that wrong from the offset, it could impact the interpretation of how the whole project is running and how the system is received. So we want to try and cut off some of these issues at the pass. Um, you know, one of the kind of key things that we always come up against is making sure that, you know, HR roles are aligned to the system, roles in the organization and making sure that they're fully understood. And, you know, sometimes we have custom roles in the system that support that. Others are standard system roles. But it's really important that we we understand that and that's analyzed and agreed, you know, in an early stage because that can that can derail a training program very, very easily. Um, you know, we also need to make sure that we have, you know, if possible, whenever possible, a standalone training system environment so that it's it's safe and secure. We can't break anything. The users can't break anything. But also, you know, we are not impacting on on other work that's that's running in parallel with the program as well. Um, you know in terms of our team we have domain experts that specialize in finance, in supply chain, in HR and other elements of ERP. And I think it's really important to make sure that, you know, our domain experts interact really closely with the business SMEs and the business experts so that, you know, we really make sure that we understand the business and we can translate the business into our domain specific training. Um, certainly in this day and age, virtual training is taking the lead. Um, I would recommend looking at how that is delivered, how it's measured, because obviously we need to understand the effectiveness of that training as well. We use a product which enables us to emulate a physical classroom virtually, which is really effective for us to make sure that our trainees have understood what we're teaching. We can see their workstations virtually. We can have a back of the room view and we can go from the back of the room view to an over the shoulder view and then we can drop into the desktop if required and support them live in a classroom, which is what we used to do in a physical world, but now we're more virtual. You know, we can still emulate very similar training delivery, which I think is really, really important. Um, and you know, I think one of the other, the other items that, you know, we certainly recommend wherever possible with are in application support programs, things like Oracle's guided learning, you know, typically as we call it, um, can reduce go live support tickets by up to 50%, which is, you know, can be a huge strain on service desks. Um, you think of things like data integrity where you've got a system that can guide you right in the moment when you're in the system, um, to how to best use it. But equally it can, um, it can redirect you if you've put the data in incorrectly so we can look after things like, you know, data integrity and give that comfort to the users that they've got this support, they've got an additional layer that enables them to do their jobs effectively for, for from, from go live because, you know, adoption is really important. But equally you've got a system that is going to be updated on a quarterly basis. So we need to look after the users with new functionality or new policies or, you know, we can communicate to those users through in application guidance systems too. So if there's a change in a process or change in a policy, we can roll out that change really quickly, really effectively live in the application. So it really helps to underpin what Michael is talking about in terms of that change and that communication piece. So, you know, there certainly things that we would recommend and that's what what training does does look good from our perspective. You know, we've rolled these solutions out with a number of customers, one in the UK, you know, one across Europe. So these solutions can be written in multiple languages too, and they support that effectively. Um, and you know, certainly the users there really found that that was, you know, highly beneficial. But not just that you've got your business as usual moving forward. What about new joiners? What about movers in your organization from one role to another? How do you support that in an effective fashion? And these tools certainly enable that to take place as well. Um, and I think lastly, as I mentioned, we're here delivering virtually we're talking about virtual training. Obviously a lot of employees are working from home these days. So again, without having someone in a peer, you know, peer to peer network being in the office because you're working virtually, you can certainly add that support to people who are working from home or remotely as well. So I think that's a really key thing to remember. So, um, yeah, hope that, hope that explains for you kind of how we see things. Speaker1: Brilliant. Thank you, Tony. So I've got another question. Um, you referred to the principle of adopt, not adapt. Can you explain a little bit more what you mean by that? Speaker4: Yeah, I'll kick this off. Um, so this is where you have the business SMEs and the Oracle consultants trying to find what the process is. And the principle of the Dot not adapt is that the organization, wherever possible, should adopt the out of the box Oracle process. Okay. What you don't want to do is adapt or reconfigure the Oracle process to your existing business processes because that takes time and costs an awful lot of money. And whenever Oracle release patches every quarter or so on, that mean you're going to have to update because you haven't adopted the out of the box process. Okay. And so it's absolutely key to ensure you get the benefits out of Oracle Cloud and for adopt to adapt to be accepted as a guiding principle, it's essential that you have very clear, strong leadership right from the start to deal with the request for adaption to be made so that in a recent client but we had a kick off with the whole senior leadership team and even the chief executive Officer made very clear that we are doing adopt, not adapt. You've got a problem with that, come and see me. And that's a shining example of the kind of behavior that we'd love to see from clients when we're talking about this. Um, but so as well as looking at existing processes for ways of working, you need to look at the future roles because there may be some changes in roles and responsibilities that you need to consider by going down the correct route of adopting the out of the box out of the box solution. And so you let's talk about finance. You've implemented some of the core financial modules. There may be some existing ways of working which are going to have. To change in order to be consistent with how Oracle works. Let's say from a retail perspective, there's a culture of holding back invoices. At the end of the month, you hit your target. Let's just hold 1 or 2 backs. That'll give me a good start to the next month or I'll comment. I won't allow you to do that. Okay. So you're going to have to change some of those behaviors in advance of the implementation of Oracle to to get the business in the right place in order to accept those changes when they when they come in. And now as a part of this, you're going to need to work really closely with your business partner community to help manage and communicate any of those changes to people. And we have to make sure that that messaging is consistent when we're talking about what's happening, why it's happening, why there might be an impact on people's roles. Okay. So adopt and adapt. Sounds simple, but there's a lot of stuff that sits underneath it. Guess, Tony, is there anything you'd like to add to that? Speaker5: Yeah, I would. And I think the key message for me really is. Not to underestimate the impact and the change that will take place in adopting. You know, in days gone by, you would customize an ERP system to fit your business, whereas now you're adopting a system. So you've got to reconfigure your business processes to fit that system. So that means there's a lot of change, a lot of retraining because it's new, These are new processes. You know, people need to understand these things. But more importantly, I think we need to alleviate concerns and fears in the user community about what does this mean for my job. You know, that's that's the level that people think about, obviously. So, you know, we need to alleviate those fears. We need to give them insight to the benefits that will help them in their role and simplify, you know, their transactions and their processes or in fact, you know, emulate their position because, you know, they don't have to do some of the manual grind that they used to do. And now they can do more exciting things with their the time that they get back and be more productive for the organization. So, you know, I think that there's a big, big consideration across this. And I think, you know, the human behavior and being able to, you know, support that and alleviate fears in, you know, really solid communication, really solid change plans and really solid training programs that can underpin all of that. So, yeah, certainly my key message there do not underestimate the amount of change that will take place. Speaker1: Okay, Well, thanks for that. We actually have a few questions from the audience. So first one being, what do you use to monitor and track buying and change throughout the program? Speaker2: Perhaps I'll take that one. Um, we we as part of our methodology, we've got a number of different tools, but for example, change readiness assessments which can, can sort of score the, the, the level of change or buy in from different stakeholder groups are used and they're used periodically throughout the program. So we can then, um, track the different stakeholder groups and sort of where they are on the, on the behavioral change curve. But in addition to that, there's also some more hands on engagement. So regular one to ones catching up, just discussions with different people and groups to sort of check in on how they're feeling about it. The type of behaviors you're seeing is also used. So it's a combination of different techniques, but that's all used to then sort of plot and track where we feel different stakeholder groups are where and, and then react to any areas where we feel there's a there's an issue or there's sort of lagging behind where they need to be to come up with a strategy to to drive better engagement and to sort of pull them along that change curve. Speaker1: Brilliant. Thank you. Thanks for that. Speaker3: Sorry. Speaker2: Before you go. Actually, that's a good just thought of one thing that that topic is a topic that we are going to address more specifically in the next webinar. The next one in this series, which we can mention at the end. So if whoever's interested in that, please make sure you join the next webinar. Speaker3: Brilliant. Thanks. Speaker1: Thanks, Aaron. So I've got another question. What can be the most challenging part? Delivering change. Speaker4: Um, think I'll take that one and I'll probably hand over to Tony. I'm sure he's got some views on this as well. Um, I think for me, it's engaging with, with clients and they, they think that the approach to change can be picked up from their side by people as in the margins of someone's job. You're given a resource who's going to work with you on change, but they're only available maybe 2 or 3 days a week. Um, which can be really frustrating. And again, that, that, that sort of points to, I guess, a lack of commitment or sometimes you're given a resource or to work with who may not be at the right level, which you know, and they do the best they can, but they're not operating at the right level. So that can be really challenging. Um, and you end up having to spend too much time getting them up to the speed where they need to go and fighting with their, with their other commitments. Um, and so for me, I think that can, that can be a real challenge. My heart sings when you turn up at a client and they're throwing resources at you and you say, Oh, I've got to do some work on comms. Don't worry, we'll recruit someone. That is brilliant. That's the kind of level of commitment that I'd love to see, and I know that helps my job. Um, an awful lot easier. Um, Tony, anything you'd like to add to that from your perspective? Speaker5: Yeah, I mean there's, there's quite a few. But I think that the one that we constantly come up against that's worth mentioning is that quite often the training team are asked to use either a Uat environment to deliver training from or an environment that's not up to date with the environment, which means that either we're out of sync with, you know, a pre-production environment for those that will start to use it post go live or simply we're in an environment that's changing constantly. So really it's about understanding the impacts of all of that and mitigating that risk as much as possible. So I think that's that's one of the key frustrations that we come up against as a training team on a very regular basis. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker1: Thanks, Michael and Tony. We've got time for one more question. Um, do companies buy into change? Speaker2: I'll take that one. So do companies buy into change? Um, I think at varying degrees, I think, as I said earlier, most people sort of conceptually buy into it and understand it's a challenge, but then you don't always see the investment as a Michael sort of alluded to, that that is required to really do it properly. I think what I've seen is actually the sometimes the more the larger, the more complex the program, the more attention that is placed on change, because there's a lot more at stake. And I think people realize that, you know, when you're making a bigger investment, there's a lot more to lose in in some senses if you don't get it right. So there's certainly more attention. And also because of the complexity, sometimes I think it becomes much more front of mind there. But I think it's also depending on the leadership team. I think at a at a senior level, I think people often buy into it more and understand it more. And it also sometimes depend on, you know, the experiences they've had in the past. Most leaders who have been through a large, complex change program, um, they're the people who typically invest more in change because they've been there, they've seen the challenge and the reality of what it takes to pull people along the journey and perhaps have some of the war scars of not getting it right in the past. Speaker1: All right. Brilliant. Thanks, Aaron. So that's all we've got time for. Thank you, everyone, for joining us today. We hope this has been an informative session. If you do have any more questions you'd like to ask, please include them on the feedback forms and we'll endeavor to get back to you as soon as possible. And please do watch out for the invite for our next session, which will be about driving positive change through implementation and into business as usual. Thanks again for your time today and thank you to Michael, Tony and Owen for participating. Goodbye.
